081 – Partner with the Great Unknown with Dr. Ann Marie Chiasson

Ann Marie (1)

081 – Partner with the Great Unknown with Dr. Ann Marie Chiasson

I’m Dr. Michael Bays. In this episode, I have a conversation with Dr. Ann Marie Chiasson, the Fellowship Director of the Andrew Weil Fellowship of Integrative Medicine at the University of Arizona. I met Ann Marie back in 2008, when I was a fellow. We became fast friends because we both were interested in Shamanism, energy medicine, and alternative modes of healing. Dr. Chiasson is board-certified in family practice, hospice, and palliative medicine. She is also fellowship trained in integrative medicine through the University of Arizona Center of Integrative Medicine. She’s the author of Energy Healing: The Essentials of Self-Care and Self-Healing with Energy Medicine. Ann Marie is my friend and teacher. I’m also part of a small group that works with Ann Marie in a school she facilitates. Some of our conversation is based on those teachings.

Many of us have lost someone over the past couple of years. We lost our father. The process of his passing was a kind of an initiation for me. As with any initiation, there’s always some kind of a shift or a transformation within the initiate. That’s exactly what happened to me once I was finally able to let go and surrender to the process. My fear and apprehension faded, and I became closer to my dad than I ever had been in our entire relationship. All of our history and my expectations dropped away, and I was able to connect on a level that I never could before. While mourning, I still wanted to keep busy and went back to work. That’s when all hell broke loose as COVID hit, and we were all mourning the loss of life as we knew it. I was having a difficult time, and so turned to Ann Marie for some much needed help, and this recording is part of our conversation. We talk a lot about COVID, because it was ramping up at the time, but you can replace that with anything that you fear or are worried about.

During these turbulent times, we are all going through a great transformation or initiation, and this podcast will help you navigate this uncharted territory into the great unknown.

Topics Discussed Today

[10:47] Neuroscience talks about how three to six months of chronic stress and chronic pain can change the brain. Chronic stressors can down regulate the brain.

[12:00] There’s a different vibe when you’re meeting with people in person vs remotely.

[15:12] During COVID there were chronic stressors that never seem to go away.

[17:42] Everyone agrees that this has been an accelerant and all of the difficulties are getting illuminated.

[19:14] It’s important to stay centered in every moment, with every breath.

[21:05] When something’s going to come to fruition, you can feel the vibration. Check in with your body before you make a move, because we are all connected to the future.

[24:05] Taking people into the future and letting them feel what it’ll be like when a loved one is gone will help them relax. It’s like an energetic force that represents the family body.

[25:56] Ann Marie shares a technique of practicing that it’s the future and then looking back. It’s like having a mental memory of a future event in your life when you’re planning your vacation.

[28:12] Hold the feeling that what you’re praying for has already happened. How do you feel when this has already taken place?

[29:03] Ann Marie believes in partnering with the great unknown. So she waits until it’s given to her. She can feel, hear, and taste it.

[30:16] Set your intentions but let the mystery unfold. Don’t be greedy.

[32:15] Accept the present moment with gratitude, it’s okay to have wants and desires.

[34:09] Labeling can be a trap and a prison around how you perceive the world.

[36:34] Surrendering to what is, can help your fears go away.

[44:08] Ann Marie talks about hearing wisdom for the first time from William Brugh Joy.

[47:43] The mystery of the outcast allows them not to be caught in the same karmic patterns as the family. They feel like an outcast, but it gives them freedom.

[50:49] Once a parent dies, a new head of the family will show up energetically. Just wait, and see who shows up in the family.

[55:20] Ho’oponopono working out differences in the family. Find more than one tradition and dive in deeply.

[58:28] The heart centered meditation. The heart center is the center chakra for above and below. The heart is the central point for the entire thing. The heart center is also a communal space. It’s a communal place where we find each other and other sources. This is a meditation that allows us to generate energy. It’s a doorway into all mystical teachings and teachings about love.

[01:06:20] The four attributes of the heart include compassion, innate harmony, healing presence, and unconditional love. The heart center has been around longer than any of us. When in doubt drop into your heart center.

[01:12:05] No matter how far I feel I’ve come on this spiritual path, Ann Marie has a gentle way of prompting me to look at things in a new way.

[01:12:31] Shaking it out is a Shamanic technique to use when you feel overwhelmed or angry.

[01:13:24] Project yourself into the future and work your way back into the present describing what happened in between.

[01:13:57] The patient-centered prognosis technique to hone in on the presence or absence of a loved one or event.

[01:16:59] Sunrise Supercharge changed my life and supercharges my day.

[01:19:40] Heart Centered Meditation

Links and Resources:
Uncle Michael @TheHollowTube on Twitter
Uncle Michael @TheHollowTube on Instagram

Michael Bays on Facebook
The Hollow Tube Facebook Page
Ann Marie Chiasson

Email Ann Marie Chiasson office.drchiasson@gmail.com

Dr. Ann Marie Chiasson Facebook

Energy Healing: The Essentials of Self-Care
Barefoot Wisdom: Better Health through Grounding
Self-Healing with Energy Medicine

Healing with Body Energy

Joy’s Way, A Map for the Transformational Journey: An Introduction to the Potentials for Healing with Body Energies

Avalanche: Heretical Reflections on the Dark and the Light

Jump Time: Shaping Your Future in a World of Radical Change

Secrets of the Lost Mode of Prayer: The Hidden Power of Beauty, Blessing, Wisdom, and Hurt

90 Seconds to a Life You Love: How to Master Your Difficult Feelings to Cultivate Lasting Confidence, Resilience, and Authenticity
Jump Time: Shaping Your Future in a World of Radical Change
Twelve Steps to a Compassionate Life
046 – Energy Healing and Shamanism

CurPoint Orthopedic


“All of us have been attached to certain ways of reality or what we think reality is. Of course, reality changes all of the time. Now people are being asked to handle the fact that reality is changing all the time.” Dr. Ann Marie Chiasson

“As with any initiation, there’s always some kind of a shift or a transformation within the initiate. That’s exactly what happened to me. Once, I was finally able to let go and surrender to the process then all my fear and apprehension faded, and I became closer to my dad than I ever had in our entire relationship.” Dr. Michael Bays

“You have to stay centered with every breath. You have to stay centered in every moment… Instead of thinking, I do a lot of listening. What’s next?” Dr. Ann Marie Chiasson

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